I just want to ask one question. Would you kindly introduce yourself first? My name is Shahab. Yes, and you are son of? Sajjad Haider. I’m not an Ahmadi Muslim. I see, that’s right. I’m just a Muslim. He’s come with you. So I just want to ask you a question. I mean, I’ll explain it, why I’m asking the question. But the question is, why are Ahmadi Muslims, why don’t they follow prayers behind normal Muslims?
Yes. And the question I want to ask, because you see, I’m in college over here. And we have a lot of Muslim students. We pray together. I’ve come here, I’ve prayed behind you, I’ve prayed behind a lot of Ahmadis. That’s right, yes. But I see that we have some Ahmadi students, they never pray behind us. That’s right. When we pray in Jama, they never pray behind us. I’ll explain. And the thing is, I find it confusing, because if I call myself Muslim and someone else calls himself Muslim, I accept him that he’s Muslim. And for the unity of the Ummah, right, I mean, if we have these differences, when you have two Muslims who call themselves Muslim and they don’t pray together, that means we’ll never be, you know, we’ll never come together in any way.
And as you can see, the present situation, everyone is going their way. I mean, they don’t, they don’t, you know, think that they are Muslims. We are different Muslims. We have these small, small differences. And we all sort of go in different ways. So, I mean, I don’t understand why you have this. If you sit down for a while, I’ll try to explain. Yes, sit here. Maybe you have to ask a question, a partial question to my answer. The fact is that it is obvious that you do not know the history of sectarianism in Islam. If you had even a cursory knowledge of what has been happening in the past, and what even today is the official position of various sects, you shouldn’t have asked this question.
So, first I’ll apprise you of the exact situation as it exists in the Muslim world today. If common Muslims who have not much knowledge of what faith they should hold belonging to a certain sect, or as a Muslim even, they don’t know much about Islam except the fact that they are born Muslims and they want to stick to the ummah as such, as a Muslim. Yet, they belong to certain sects. Some are born among the Barelvi houses, some are among the Shia houses, some among the Wahhabi houses and some other houses. But as new generation, they don’t know much about these differences.
But even today, if they go to their scholars, who have an authority on this subject, they would let them know, and you can make experiment yourself, that a Shia scholar would tell you that according to our official edict, not only that Shias are not permitted to say their prayer behind the Imams of other sects, but also the other sects are not permitted to say their prayers behind our Imam. They are not even permitted to enter our mosques. They would become filthy. And not only that, Shias are not permitted to say namaz-e-janaza of these people who are positively infidels in the guise of Islam. I’m talking of the official edict now.
And they would further tell you that if a Shia is compelled to say janaza prayer of a Sunni, then the best he can do is to curse him all through his prayer. And may not reveal this fact to others for fear of punishment, so quietly he can go on cursing others and he would earn a reward from God. Now this is just one specimen. The similar edicts have been issued by other sects even in stronger terms. In such stronger terms that you’ll be flabbergasted if I tell you some of them. You won’t believe that such a thing could have happened to the world of Islam.
One of the most highly respectable Imams of Barelvi sect, which happens to enjoy majority following in Pakistan, has declared that obviously no Barelvi is permitted to say his prayer behind Sunnis and Shias and Rafizis and Qadianis and so on and so forth. That’s obvious. But even they are not permitted. But that is also obvious. But things which I must reveal now, and according to the way he is going at it, he says you are not even permitted to shake hands with these infidels and non-believers because this is what they amount to. They don’t belong to the pale of Islam. They are worse than kafirs. These are the words used. And you are not permitted to enter their mosque.
They are not permitted to enter your mosque. If they do, you wash your mask like you wash your mask when a dog dies in the mosque. And you are not even permitted to marry among them. If you do, your children would be illegitimate. And that is not all according to this great Barelvi leader. He is most highly respected and honored leader by the Barelvi sect. He continues to say, Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan, Barelvi I am referring to, continues to say that they are not even permitted to marry among themselves. They are not even permitted.
Non-Barelvi Muslims he is talking about. They are not even permitted to marry among non-Muslims. And I tell you on authority of religion, that they are not even permitted to marry animals other than human beings. Even if they do so, and they marry for instance a bitch or something, and children are born out of that, those children would be illegitimate and they would not inherit the property of their dead parents. This was the language used and still officially holds good. Why Muslims belonging to various sects say prayer behind each other’s imams after all this, I can’t understand.
There is a duality of character. Either they should denounce, like honest people, these verdicts, these edits of this Moulana Kalaji and denounce them along with it, that they have brought a lot of harm to Islam. We do not believe in this rubbish. And because we do not believe in this, so we have a right to just become loosely called Muslims and we will follow anything we like. But if you do that, the verdict continues, it’s not yet ended. It says those who doubt in the validity of this verdict, even if they belong to the Brazilian sect, the same edit would be applicable in entirety to them.
And those who doubt this edit to be applicable to the doubters, this would become applicable to them as well. This is the sort of language which has been used in the world of Islamic religion by various sects and their leaders. And even today when you ask them, they will say they were right. They said it on the authority of the Holy Quran and on the authority of the traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam. Yet not knowing all this, people come and object to Ahmadis for not saying prayers behind those who prohibit them from saying prayer behind them. This only shows our honesty. This only shows that we have no duality about our character. What we believe, we have the courage to practice, despite whatever the world may think.
So that speaks highly of our truth, our character, our sincerity. And nothing more. But that is not the whole story. Now I will come to the reason why we do not do that and what is our edit against all these edits. Number one, not in a single place you will find even remotely mentioned that Muslims other than Ahmadis are not permitted to enter our mosques, to say prayer behind us, or to in any way socialize with us.
If they do this and this and that would be due to them. Nowhere whatsoever. Again, the Ahmadis, Ahmadi men are permitted to marry non-Ahmadi women, but Ahmadi girls are discouraged, I would say discouraged because I will explain why. Discouraged to marry non-Ahmadi men, yet when they do, according to the Ahmadi edit, the marriage is legal and the offspring is legitimate offspring and they would inherit the legacy of their fathers and parents. How logical, how mild as compared to the other edits which precede us, which we inherited from the history of Islam.
Yet we did not use the same language, we did not use the same lack of logic, and still I can further prove that we are left with no choice but to adopt this attitude that Ahmadis are unable, are incapable of saying their prayers behind certain Imams. Now I’ll come to the last issue, last question, which would clarify the entire matter for you. Hazrat Masih Maud, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community, has nowhere said that Ahmadis are not permitted to say their prayers behind non-Ahmadis. What he has said is that it is forbidden to Ahmadis from now on, that is to say previously it was not forbidden.
It was forbidden to Ahmadis from that time on to say their prayer behind those who declare the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community to be an aposter, a man who attributes falsehood to God and who is a committed liar and they declare that the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community does not belong to Islam or they hesitate in declaring their position. They have not the courage enough to declare which side they are on. Ahmadis are not permitted to say their prayer behind such people.
Now put yourself into our shoes for a while and honestly answer me that if you believe that an Imam Mahdi has come, an Imam appointed by God himself, and there are certain mullahs who declare that he is a pakka kafir, he is outside the veil of Islam, his murder is legitimate, you can do anything to him and his followers and their marriages are illegal and they are living a life of lawlessness outside the veil of Islam. Will your prayer be held good in the sight of Allah if you say your prayer behind these people who hurl such filth against the Imam Mahdi in whom you believe? What is your answer? Yes? I want to say, in our society you said that they have these differences between Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims and things like that.
Okay, there are many fiqhs, I understand that. But as far as I have seen, we have had different fiqhs. I mean, we have had Jafaris, we have had a lot of people, but all of them, all of them, they have no thing, they all pray together. Secondly… Pardon? All of us pray together. I mean, we have had people from Iran… Just a moment. This is what I am telling you. This is exactly what I have told you. Can I just say something? You pray together, defying the dictates of your religious leaders. Sorry, can I just say something?
Okay, people, I can agree, people say a lot of things, right? But if you look at the Quran, right? I mean, I haven’t seen anything. If he says he is a Muslim, I mean, people can go wrong. They can say a lot of things. But if they are not justified from the Quran or from the Hadith, I mean, they can say a lot of things. So, I mean, I don’t have to accept them. They may be wrong. I don’t believe… Thank you. Thank you. I agree. There are many leaders, they say a lot of things. I mean, you can say that… You see, I understand your position. This is… I mean, there is no offence to you. Yeah, no…
But you have not understood my position. What I mean to say, that such people like you, as are floating without particular associations or attachment to certain sites, are very few. Majority among such people who are modern in their views, they are practically religious. But I am talking of those who are religious as well, as they are gentlemen at large in Islam. They are very few. The majority of the people hostile to Ahmadiyyat are of the type which I have already described to you. They belong positively to certain sects. The leaders of their sects have told them, on authority of the Quran and the tradition of the Holy Prophet, as they understood it, that they are not permitted to say their prayers behind others.
Yet they say their prayers. And also those people, those ulema, who believe in these addicts, even they say their prayers behind others. So this is the duality against which I raise protest. What I mean to say is, we are made conspicuous because we do what we believe in. And the rest, the majority among them, believe in something else and act differently. And this is the gravest crime in the sight of Allah, because the Holy Quran tells us, لمَا تَقُولُونَ مَا لَتَفَلُونَ كَبُرَ مَغْتَنِ اِنْدَ اللَّهِ اَنْ تَقُولُوا مَا لَتَفْلُونَ لمَا تَقُولُونَ مَا لَتَفْلُونَ Why do you say things which you do not do? And remember, it is the gravest crime in the sight of Allah, for you to say things which you do not do.
So I was drawing your attention to this position. If you are exempt from that, you belong to a different sect of your own then. Then you are not the person whom I was addressing. Can I just say something else? I mean, in your opinion, if I have these views that I agree that you are Muslim and I don’t follow that thing, I mean, what would your advice be to other non-Muslims? I tell you, if this is the view, and you want to lead the prayer, I’ll ask you this pointed question. I said there is a person who claims that Allah has appointed him as Imam Mahdi, and I am following him. What is your position vis-à-vis him?
This will be my pointed question. If you say, I don’t deny his claim, I don’t declare him to be a liar, because I don’t know. And I am against such verdicts as declaring him to be a liar, an imposter, and this and that. Then I will not hesitate to say my prayer behind him. Despite the fact that you have not got initiated into Ahmadiyyat. This is the point which I was serving. Yes? That Ahmadiyyat is not the condition. The condition is that you do not declare the founder of the Ahmadiyya community to be a liar while you have no means to find out whether he is a liar or not. I agree on that point. I am not sure.
I am not sure about the existence of the Mahdi, but I am saying, I mean, there is a Mahdi. But I mean, knowing these conditions, how come still, you know, people from your community, they don’t, you know, follow behind. They don’t do what? They don’t say prayers behind us. This is what I am telling you. Yeah, but that means that it’s like a rule. No, tell me, you have failed to answer my question while I answered your question straightforwardly.
No. I put you this question and you have conveniently or inconveniently forgotten this. Please. I told you, if today, if Mirza Sahib is not the Imam Mahdi, if he were the Imam Mahdi in your eyes, you would immediately accept him, of course. But if he is not the Imam Mahdi, and Imam Mahdi is yet to appear, is he not? If someone claims, in whom you believe, and you believe that he is the Mahdi appointed by God as predicted by the Holy Prophet of Islam, and somebody says he is a liar, would you say your prayer behind him? Tell me. No, the thing is, I haven’t said that you are a liar. I haven’t said that you are a liar.
No, no, I am not saying that. I am posing a hypothetical question. Yes. Why don’t you answer it? No, I agree. I mean, if I was in your position, I wouldn’t pray behind him. Will you not? I would not pray behind him. But if you say, I simply don’t know, I am not in a position to declare him to be a liar. If you say that, then you are all right. According to the Holy Quran, your position is then clear. Behind such a person, an Ahmadi can say his prayer. But if he declares this position publicly and does not hesitate to declare this opinion before others, if he hides it, then he would be declared a munafiq. Yes, but you see, you say these things, but when it comes to practice, I see they don’t follow it.
Because, okay, you believe that there is an Ahmadi there. Okay, I mean, that’s your belief. I can’t take it against you. It’s your belief. You believe in that. I mean, there’s nothing. I am not going to take it against you. I am not going to say that you are that. But even despite saying that, you know, people, you know, they don’t, you know, they are not that easy. You know, they have different opinions. And the second thing, you know… No, no, different opinions, all right. But first, you know, don’t skip. Please. It’s like a standard…
If you want to understand a thing, try to understand. Don’t skip the issue for the sake of going into debate. The issue of Imam Mahdi is not just a small minor issue which we can skip by and skip over and try to go on to other issues. This is a fundamental issue which has to be decided here and we should be very clear about it. What your position is and what my position is, vis-à-vis the Imam Mahdi. The Imam Mahdi is an Imam which according to the prophecies of the founder of Islam would be appointed by God. He would not be like an ordinary Imam or a Mullah of a mosque. He would not be elected.
He would be commissioned by God. And then it is the order of the founder of Islam that when you see the time of Imam Mahdi, you hear that he has come. Even if you have to cross glaciers on your knees yet you reach him and by the spirit get initiated at his hands. This is the verdict of Hazrat Abbas Muhammad Mustafa the founder of Islam. If I find such a man and I believe in him I am left with no choice but to get initiated at his hands as I have been told by my master. Those who disagree with this appointed Imam of Allah and who oppose him who call him bad names you think of me saying my prayer behind him? You don’t know the philosophy of Imam Mahdi then.
Try to understand the philosophy of Imam Mahdi. Imam Mahdi is not created in religion by people. Imam Mahdi is only created by God. Why we say prayers behind others? Because the real Imam, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam is not available anymore. So anyone who follows him truly and honestly occupies the right of Imamate as if on his behalf. But the moment they separate their ties such a logical position that a man educated like you and clear in vision and sight should have understood immediately. This is what I am trying to impress upon you.
