I wonder if I might ask you a question based on a statement that Jesus made. In the Bible, in the Christian Bible, Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me. Now, Rick and myself as Christians believe that the only way to God is through Jesus. Could I ask you what your interpretation of that statement is? I have already explained it so many times before.
In fact, when particularly the Jehovah Witnesses are very fond of quoting this saying of Jesus Christ to establish that there is no possible link between man and God except through Jesus. Why? Because Jesus has made this claim. So if Jesus has made this claim, number one, how those who do not believe in him can establish positively without any fear of doubt that his claim is 100% correct. So just a claim in itself doesn’t mean anything. Secondly, what has to be further investigated is, does this claim have no other possibility of inference other than what is attributed to it by Christians?
Thirdly, is this claim a unique claim in the history of religion or in other countries, in other places, in other ages, similar claims are found with different meanings attached to it? So unless you investigate all these possibilities, how can you draw the conclusion to which you are driving me? The first thing, most important thing is, I begin with the first possibility. If Jesus meant, as you believe or some others believe, that he is the only link that was ever created between man and God, in that case what would be the position of the rest of humanity, both before Jesus Christ and after Jesus Christ?
Millions and billions of in fact people, generation after generation, had come and gone before Jesus Christ and would come and go after Jesus Christ in all the regions of the world, what sort of God that is, who completely ignores them and leaves them with no chance of establishing relationship with him? So it is impossible, I mean this is an idea which is totally rejectable at the outset. If you consider the other religious movements in the world, if you follow the history of religion, that very history of religion defies such a concept, because in so many places people have established contact with God and well, they make a claim, but you also make a claim. You present certain miracles in favour of that claim, they present bigger miracles in favour of their claims.
Many many much greater things have been claimed by the Hindus, attributing those miracles to their so-called gods or godly creations, but this thing is not limited to India or Palestine alone. Everywhere in the world the same story is repeated all over again. Before Christianity, greater miracles were attributed to the so-called gods of Greece and so-called god of Latin world, so what about them? This is just a, now let me finish one after the other.
As far as the second thing is concerned, the fact is that almost every religion worth a song has made this claim, and Islam has made it repeatedly in so many ways. The Holy Quran declares Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa ﷺ to be a wasila, that is a means of contact between man and God, a sort of via media, that is what wasila is. And the very first surah of the Holy Quran, that is surah Fatiha, declares Islam to be sirat-e-mustaqim, not only a way, but the large, big way, highway, a high road to Allah. So the teaching is a high road, the person is a wasila, that is a via media, and also it declares that not only this, there are so many other roads leading to Allah.
That is the beauty of the Holy Quran, it does not obviate the possibility of other paths leading to Allah, but it declares positively, it says, wal-allazeena jahadu feena la nahdi yannahum so bolana O mankind, I mean it’s such a great glad tiding for everybody, it declares to the mankind that those who seek out our ways, those who want to reach for us, we tell them that whichever path they follow with good intent, we’ll see to it that they are led to us. So that means from whichever religion they follow, they want to reach their Creator with genuine desire, with all sincerity, then whatever path there is, that would lead to Allah. What a beautiful teaching and what a global teaching, which applies equally to the North and the South and the East and the West. So this is the Islamic teaching, and as I have said, other religions have also mentioned this in some way or the other.
So this solves the third question automatically, what is meant by way? In fact, every prophet had to be a way, and this is what he was. Before Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, Abraham claimed righteousness, and you know, you at least give that much to him, Moses claimed righteousness, and many other prophets, and they led humanity of that time to Allah successfully. So in this largest concept, largest context, this should be interpreted, and there is no problem left then. Thank you for your learned answer. May I just close by saying that my interpretation, out of my faith, is that Jesus was the complete provision of God for all mankind, for all time, that’s our understanding.
For the time past as well? Before the time of Jesus. Before Jesus appeared? The people of Israel were God’s chosen. What I mean to say is, how can you establish this fact? I mean, just a claim can be made, any claim can be made by anyone, you are at full liberty to do that. But how will you establish this, how do you apply this to the realities of life? That is the point. Well, may I just say that we believe it because it’s the written word of God, which we believe to be true. But I mean, because you are born in Christianity, when you discuss matters with those who are not born in a certain religion, then a dialogue takes place.
And for a dialogue, the minimum platform of accord has to be chosen. If I go on referring to the Holy Quran as a claimant of something, and you go on referring to the Bible as a claimant of something, how can you hold a dialogue? So the minimum common platform is rationality, common sense, common human heritage of knowledge, human history, and so on and so forth. This is why I refer to all these. And when I refer to the Holy Quran, I did not refer it as an authority for you to believe. I quoted an example, so I’ll refer to Hinduism and other religions, to tell you that this has been happening everywhere.
So this is how you should present your case. Not because you have been born as a Christian and you understand this to be like that. So we should begin to believe or other human beings should begin to believe. In fact, if you do not have a rational support for your belief, it’s high time you revised your own beliefs. Go back and see why. If had you, I mean, put this question to you, that had you not been born a Christian, would you be able to swallow all this? I wasn’t born a Christian, I was born, my belief is that I was born as one separated from God. Pardon?
I believe that I was born as one separated from God. Yes. And I believe that I became a Christian when God revealed to me through his Holy Spirit. When was that? It was just over four years ago. Your parents were non-Christians? My parents were Christians. That’s what I meant. I was born into a Christian family. So there is no disagreement, this is what I meant. You were born in a Christian society out of Christian parenthood. That is a very strong influencing factor. And when you notice this, how strong this factor is, then everything becomes doubtful and suspicious. Because in other ideas, scientific ideas, there is a free exchange of platforms. Millions of people leave one idea and go to the other without scruple. But in religious world there is such, you know, such compartments, such tight compartments are made.
As if persons are not permitted to leave one place for another place and they don’t care either. They don’t change their stance as much. And a lot of effort has to be made to do that ultimately. So that shows that this influence of being born in a certain religion, born out of certain parents holding to certain religion is one of the strongest influences on human society. So the beliefs to the same degree lose validity unless they are put to test. And when you put them to test, they should be put to test on the anvil of rationality, on the touchstone of rationality. So when you speak of rationality, then these references do not mean anything. Then we must start with a common platform which is acceptable to you, to me, to a Chinese, to an African and from there the dialogue would build.
