Questioner: Before the actual question, I would draw your attention to the two Qur’anic injunctions. One is, of course, obviously we understand, we are given to understand, we must believe there are no contradictions in the Holy Book, Qur’an. But at certain times, somebody like you must explain to people of small knowledge like me, the two ideas, how should one reconcile when we look at the news, day after day, the situation in South Africa, the socio-economic and political struggle for independence, and the situation in Pakistan, in the name of religion, if not wholesale massacre, downright persecution and tyranny. Now, the Qur’an teaches us that we must believe, أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَةَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ Your overlords, you must obey, and it does not tolerate any subversive element. No efforts to be made entirely, just sit on the whole situation.
Huzoor: No, no, that is not what is said.
Questioner: Allow me, sir, to finish off.
Huzoor: Show me where you said that no efforts should be made at all.
Questioner: Yes, small efforts on a small scale. This is one idea.
Huzoor: No, no, not even that. Don’t attribute words to the Holy Qur’an.
Questioner: Makura Sharif says, أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَةَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ
Huzoor: No, but why do you explain it in the words that it means that only small efforts should be made?
Questioner: Okay, then, on the other hand it also says…
Huzoor: What the Holy Qur’an says, simply first translate it please, then base your question on that simple rendering of the Holy Qur’an. Please, go ahead.
Questioner: أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَةَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ People who are your overlords.
Huzoor: No, no, overlord is not the right word for this.
Questioner: Government?
Huzoor: People who… obey the people who are in authority.
Questioner: Obey the people who are in authority.
Huzoor: Obey the people in authority. Obey the people in authority, but before that it says, obey Allah.
Questioner: Yes, but…
Huzoor: أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ is the first mentioned, it says أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ Obey Allah.
Questioner: But in case of…
Huzoor: Just a moment please.
Questioner: Yes, sorry.
Huzoor: وَأَتِيُّ الرَّسُولَةَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ And obey the Prophet of Allah. And also here the word أَتِيُّ is not repeated, is not as emphasized as in the first two cases. The verse should be understood more minutely than it has been observed by you. أَتِيُّ اللَّهَ وَأَتِيُّ الرَّسُولَةَ Then أَتِيُّ is not repeated. وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ And also the people in authority. But it doesn’t end here, just a moment, just a moment. It continues, this verse is not complete yet.
فَإِن تَنَازَاتٌ فِي شَيْنٍ وَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ If you face a situation of dispute where you do not agree with the authorities, then it doesn’t say that stop the struggle or launch a movement in a low subdued tone. It doesn’t say that. It says refer the matter to Allah and His Rasul. That is to say, in some cases, the Holy Qur’an opens the possibilities of disagreeing with the authorities. And that disagreement would be based on the authority of God, that is the book, and on the authority of the Prophet, that is the traditions of the Holy Prophet.
So, the matter would be referred to such situations as have been mentioned in the Holy Qur’an or as arise during the lifetime of the Prophet (sa) and should be adjudged according to these two criteria. This is the whole verse as translated by me now. So, now base your question on this rendering of this holy verse.
Questioner: The second part of the statement over which I wish to base my question is the إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّى ما بِقَوْمٍ ما بِقَوْمٍ My memory sometimes fails, I had chunks of Qur’an. Thank you. So, God does not bring forth a change in the affairs of any nation unless they strive for it. Now, apparently these two are not contradictory.
Huzoor: No, no, it’s not contradictory at all. First of all, as the first verse has been mentioned, I’ll refer to that again. The second verse has been further explained in another place. What does Allah mean by saying that Allah doesn’t change? This, the same verse has been further explained in another portion of the Holy Qur’an. The word Ne’ma is added there. And it is stated that once Allah has bestowed a people with any favor, He does not take away that favor unless they themselves have changed them and rendered them unworthy of holding that favor for long, for any longer. Only then Allah takes away that favor. That is to say, Allah does not permit any people to deteriorate and to be deprived of all those favors of Allah which have been bestowed upon them earlier unless they earn that disfavor. So, this is the meaning of this verse.
Questioner: Thank you. Now, I would wish to base my question which is what lies behind mankind’s struggle in history wherein one situation in South Africa, one situation apparently in the name of religion in Pakistan, is about politics and the hunger and thirst of man for power. Whatever it is, political, economic or suzerainty, no matter, as a student of history, if one has to learn something, the only thing mankind has ever learned is that nobody learns anything from the stories of history or the anecdotes or the past.
Huzoor: No, I think you are not right. Many evil things have been learned from this history by evil people and many good things have also been learned by the good people.
Questioner: So, please, my question is…
Huzoor: You have also learned from history of the Holy Prophet (sa) and many others have also learned from the history of Abu Jahl and Fir’aun. So, why do you say that man doesn’t learn from the history?
Questioner: I was thinking of mankind’s, not superpowers as such, but large chunks of mankind called nations and the old Hulagu Khan, Genghis Khan, although their place has been taken by some other big people, new names, yet the struggle remains the same. The only question that arises in my mind as a student of history is that how should one reconcile religion and politics as such in the light of the two situations. Thank you.
Huzoor: Reconcile?
Questioner: The two Qur’anic things. Over to you, sir.
Huzoor: Please. Thank you. I think we have landed somewhere else. We started in a different direction altogether. We started travelling east and now we find ourselves in the west. But anyway, I will try to follow you wherever you go.
Questioner: The actual question or the area of doubt is the role of politics via religion. Thank you.
Huzoor: Now, this is more defined now. Thank you so much. The role of politics via religion.That is, how can we reach, for instance, we can say, how can we reach Peshawar via Bathindam(18:28)? Or how can we reach Yorkshire via Cornwall? You know, the fact is that religion, I mean, I have just taken it lightly to add, you know, a light note to, otherwise, this grim subject. The fact is that religion, according to Islam, is an all-comprising way of life in which politics is also discussed but in its own way, with its own overriding principles of truth and morality. But when you say politics, as this word is understood in the ordinary sense of the word, then politics is totally denuded of any higher principle of morality and religious values. Politics and morality just don’t go together. So, if you want to reach that politics, which is considered to be the politics of the world, of this profane politics, then you can never reach it through or via religion because they are differently oriented, differently directed. They are governed by principles which cannot compromise, which cannot reconcile with each other. They are opposing principles. This is why there is a jihad and continuous jihad between the religious principles and irreligious principles. But that doesn’t mean that Islam requires you to shape your life in a manner that there is no element of politics in that.
The fact is that, in the life of the Holy Prophet (sa) and in the life of other prophets as well, and those who followed them, we find a measure of politics. But that politics is politics less falsehood, politics less deceit, politics less personal ambitions, politics less selfishness, politics to the extent that whatever rights are due to your enemies, you should give those rights and see to it that those rights are granted him. If this is politics, and if you create such a picture of politics to the worldly wise people, they would just boo-boo this concept of politics. And they would say, what do you mean by this as politics? Politics should have some Machiavellian characters about it. Politics cannot be played without the element of falsehood, deception, deceit and so on. So as far as this word politics is concerned, as understood in the modern times, and from the viewpoint of the politicians, I assure you that you can never land into the world of politics through the teachings of the Holy Qur’an. As far as shaping your way of life under the principles mentioned in the Holy Qur’an is concerned, that part of your way of life which is governed by political forces, that also can be shaped through the guidance of the Holy Qur’an.
In that way, you can call it Islamic politics. And that subject is very much discussed in the Holy Qur’an in so many ways. For instance, sovereignty. What is sovereignty? What are the rights of sovereigns? What are the rights of the people? How should one dispense with power once one possesses power? And what one should abstain from doing when he comes to power? All this has been discussed in detail in the Holy Qur’an. All do’s and do not’s have been mentioned. So in this regard, of course, I can say the Qur’an does present a concept of politics, but that concept of politics is fundamentally different from the concept of politics held by the rest of the world. In that we also face such situations as you earlier mentioned. Now I can see the point as a whole. What was agitating your mind in view of all this? Man may find oneself occasionally in a position of oppression, where he cannot change things for himself for the better, without indulging in immorality. He wants to fight injustice by committing injustice. And because this is the easiest way available to him. This is the short circuiting of things. So he is tempted to do that and he appropriates that right in the name of deliverance from oppression. This is what is forbidden. This is what is mentioned in the verse, (Qur’an verse 14:25 ),You are not permitted to create disorder, to change the face of oppression. But orderly ways of launching this movement are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an and have been always carried out by the prophets to ultimate success. The greatest oppressions on earth have been totally destroyed and brought to smithereens by these apparently peaceful efforts which did not break the laws of the land unless those laws interfere directly with the laws of Allah. There they were permitted to break the laws of the land and follow the laws of Allah and the laws of the prophets. Otherwise, they were obliged to follow the laws of the land yet launch a movement, and according to the history of the Holy Qur’an, that such movement, although at odds, was always successful. So if a successful prescription is provided to you without creating disorder, why not follow that? Now all these movements which are based on the world movements, which are based on bringing about a revolution forcefully, all these movements are based on a concept that because you have been wrong, so in retaliation, you are permitted to hit the innocent people if you have to do that. If you have to blow up a train or blow up an aeroplane in mid-air to register your resentment against a certain government, to bring about a revolution and to force them to their knees, in the worldly politics, this is permitted and this is called their jihad against the oppressor. The Holy Qur’an doesn’t permit you this because, in essential, ultimately it will come down to this fundamental question: that if the public has given you a bad coin, can you return it to the public? This philosophical or moral issue has been discussed for very long by human scholars. It is said and it is presented as an excuse for giving bad coin to someone in the world that somebody gave me a bad coin. That somebody we don’t know who he is. The one who did wrong to us is this one particular person. But some people take this stance, that because he was a member of the public, so the public wronged us, so if we give that bad coin to someone else belonging to that some public, we are justified. So get your beating from one side and spend your anger on the other side. That sort of logic doesn’t hold water. If you have to raise a struggle against a government, according to the Holy Qur’an, it should be raised under certain principles where the wrongdoers can be hit to the extent to which they have wronged you, not beyond that.
And that, according to the Holy Qur’an, is permissible but where innocent person will be guarded against your revenge. So the whole concept of this movement of revolution and all that is completely transformed under the teachings of the Holy Qur’an, but it is not suppressed, not rejected entirely.
